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lavardera Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 432 Location: merchantville, nj	Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject: did your research include the cost of the print heads and ink tanks? _________________ -- greg
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MikeCharek Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 191	Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:13 am    Post subject: lavardera wrote: actually, it would be useful to see a cost analysis of the Canon ink tanks + print head cost over a year for a given ml of ink VS the same amount of ink run through an HP using cartridges with integral print heads. Actually, the newer Designjets (at least as far back as the 800ps I recently replaced with T610) have separate ink cartridges and printheads. The T610 uses 6 ink cartridges at $69 each for 130 ml size or $47.25 each for 69 ml size. It also has 3 printheads at $67 each. Not enough track record to see how long all this stuff lasts.
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pbacot millennium club Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 1026 Location: Northern California	Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:13 am    Post subject: Yes, Fred, see if you can figure out the costs. I found that it's hard to make comparisons with everyone using different terms. I don't think it's so bad after all with the Canon iPF 610. I got what I wanted, fast, trouble free printing, as long as I plug in the cable. The ink cartridges cost about twice what they cost for my former HP but they go at least twice as long, and there's two black tanks so you just aren't switching out cartridges so often. Actually the plotter is a bit of extravagance for me. I could get by using the print service, but often I want prints better than they can do or I want one right away. Since the print service now makes better prints from a file than copying from a hard copy (they can really mess that up), the plotter serves more for in-office use, or presentations when I want someone to see just exactly how I meant it to look. And color that so far has been great. _________________ Peter B
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lavardera Joined: 13 Apr 2004 Posts: 432 Location: merchantville, nj	Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:30 am    Post subject: You have to look at the ink on a ml basis, assuming the plotters will use ink at a similar rate (may be erroneous) The print heads are a bit of a wild card - you have to look at the recommended replacement interval, but performance may be longer or shorter. On the face of it 3x67=201 sounds less than 550, but if they need to be replaced twice as often then it is closer than it appears. _________________ -- greg
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John Cruet Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Posts: 377 Location: Guilford, CT	Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject: In the past year I replaced 10 ink tanks at the cost of $65 each. = $650 20 36 x 150 rolls @ $15 = $300 12- 24" x 150 rolls @ $12 = $144 About $1200, including taxes- for: 1500 2 x 3 sheets 1200 18 x 24 sheets Farm out to printer would cost me $4,200 per year. The printer has almost paid for itself right now- a 1 1/2 year payback. Now you know why all except our biggest orders get printed in house. _________________ John Cruet G4/733 w/1028 mb RAM & OS 10.4.10, Classic-free, skuzzy-free (runs PC7) MacBook Pro 2G Intel core duo 2 gig RAM & OS 10.5.8. PowerCadd 8, WT 9 Canon iP710 printer HP Officejet 6000 www.johncruet.com
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pbacot millennium club Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 1026 Location: Northern California	Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:05 am    Post subject: John, So you even produce full sets for distribution at your office? I hardly ever do that. Hmmm. This is also reimbursable so... the money stays with you if you charge the same. If you also have the time to do the printing. I do charge for in-house "plots" at a higher rate than the blueprinters, but I keep that down to specific plots, not every one. One of my main client owns the print shop. Can't go anywhere with that one. Peter _________________ Peter B
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Rob C Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 593 Location: Southern Connecticut	Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:01 pm    Post subject: I would guess $700 was parts + labor + markup. Since my 650C/PS died, I haven't had enough volume to justify a replacement plotter. (Every time I go to Service Point, though, I'm sick of the lack of parking. That alone has made me consider Merritt instead.) The HP Z3200 is what I want, but that's because of my photography output. Right now the Epson SP2200 is still hanging in there although it's limit is 13"x19". For everything larger, I cut out color and stick to B&W print service. _________________ Rob www.robertcoolidge.com
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John Cruet Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Posts: 377 Location: Guilford, CT	Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: pbacot wrote: John, So you even produce full sets for distribution at your office? I hardly ever do that. Hmmm. This is also reimbursable so... the money stays with you if you charge the same. If you also have the time to do the printing. I do charge for in-house "plots" at a higher rate than the blueprinters, but I keep that down to specific plots, not every one. One of my main client owns the print shop. Can't go anywhere with that one. Peter Peter: With my system I only have to occasionally visit my Canon machine to straighten out the volume of prints that come out. It simply isn't worth it for me to send out to a printer for orders smaller than 40 prints at a time. I can be working while my printer is printing since it auto-cuts each sheet from the roll feed. There is little reason for me to charge more money for house plots than for plots that my print service does. i charge the same rate for either. Of course my preferred way of project delivery is to send full size PDFs to my clients via either email or FTP. _________________ John Cruet G4/733 w/1028 mb RAM & OS 10.4.10, Classic-free, skuzzy-free (runs PC7) MacBook Pro 2G Intel core duo 2 gig RAM & OS 10.5.8. PowerCadd 8, WT 9 Canon iP710 printer HP Officejet 6000 www.johncruet.com
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John Cruet Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Posts: 377 Location: Guilford, CT	Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:09 am    Post subject: Another day, another defective print head. So I contact Canon Tech Support, and they over-nighted me a new print head. Free. This last replacement print head lasted exactly ten months. A real problem with the Canon printers has been the high cost of consumables. _________________ John Cruet G4/733 w/1028 mb RAM & OS 10.4.10, Classic-free, skuzzy-free (runs PC7) MacBook Pro 2G Intel core duo 2 gig RAM & OS 10.5.8. PowerCadd 8, WT 9 Canon iP710 printer HP Officejet 6000 www.johncruet.com
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pbacot millennium club Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 1026 Location: Northern California	Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:13 am    Post subject: John, Your post comes just as I run out of one of the matte black cartridges. Although I had two other blacks, and the cartridge seemd to still have ink in it the printer will NOT continue. At 66 bucks each I have never got a full set of backup cartridges. Fortunately I got them overnight for a critical job. Lesson learned. The machine is so smart, why not alert me beforehand? I guess I should be smart enough to look regularly. On another note I understand the printer can tell when a roll has almost run out if you have coded paper. Have you found this paper yourself? But I have a real question: I have yet to need to replace the print head. I have less volume than you. Do you get a message (plus the machine refusing to print) or is it by getting poor prints? When you had a print head failure, who did you contact and why didn't you have to pay for it? There's a warranty period? Canon iPF610. Regards, _________________ Peter B
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John Cruet Joined: 30 Apr 2004 Posts: 377 Location: Guilford, CT	Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 8:50 am    Post subject: pbacot wrote: John, But I have a real question: I have yet to need to replace the print head. I have less volume than you. Do you get a message (plus the machine refusing to print) or is it by getting poor prints? When you had a print head failure, who did you contact and why didn't you have to pay for it? There's a warranty period? Canon iPF610. Regards, The warranty period is one year parts and labor. The printer shows an error message regarding the print head, prompting you to clean it. You can clear the error message but it appears every time you make one print and stalls the machine. You have to then clear the error message before you can resume printing. A real pain! However, when I cleaned it using both methods (expending lots of expensive ink tank ink in the process) the cleaning failed. Also, when you run the test sheet, you will notice that at least one of the color swatches is blurry. That's how you know your print head failed. The printer, on its built-in display, does alert you to low print levels. Right now it is also alerting me to replace a maintenance cartridge. So, some $200-plus later, I can get back to worry-free printing, right? It made me wish I got another printer. The old Encad didn't cost me nearly as much in maintenance issues. _________________ John Cruet G4/733 w/1028 mb RAM & OS 10.4.10, Classic-free, skuzzy-free (runs PC7) MacBook Pro 2G Intel core duo 2 gig RAM & OS 10.5.8. PowerCadd 8, WT 9 Canon iP710 printer HP Officejet 6000 www.johncruet.com
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fred johnson Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 99 Location: CT	Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: My new design jet 1100 came about a week ago but its still in the box, no time lately to hook it up and actually, no place to put it yet. $682, 24 x 36 sheets & roll feed with cutter; quality is very good from what I've seen.
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fred johnson Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 99 Location: CT	Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:24 pm    Post subject: Finally got around to hooking up the Designjet 111 - easy setup took about 1/2 hr - very good quality color and black. Printheads @ $156 for 4; Inks @ 158 for 4 colors. (all included with printer) 24" x 150 ft HP Bond $17 (can be bought cheaper in nonHP stuff) For the money I think this is a good buy.
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